Horn line from "If I Had A Harem" (Livesexy)

[Gavin Smith]

Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.

I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?

[Russel Bailey]

Duke Ellington's 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be'.

Uptown' s 'Days of Wild' also suggests lines from Charlie Parker's 'Billie's
Bounce' were also used.

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?
--
Gavin Smith
--
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats aloft o'er dale and hills
When all at once I came upon
My dog being sick on the daffodils.
- Spike Milligan

[Gavin Smith]

Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
anointment utensil, Russel Bailey <***@virgin.net> poots
forth...

Post by Russel Bailey
Duke Ellington's 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be'.

Blimey. Good guess, Smith!

Either that or my subconscious already knew half the answer. Either way,
thanks very much.

It's a crime that these things aren't attributed in liner notes.

Post by Russel Bailey

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?

[Kares]

Post by Gavin Smith
Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
forth...

Post by Russel Bailey
Duke Ellington's 'Things Ain't What They Used To Be'.

Blimey. Good guess, Smith!

I've written about this a couple of times before but no-one commented on it.


K

[Jolene Davies]

Post by Kares
I've written about this a couple of times before but no-one commented on it.

No comment ;-)

[longhairedrockstar]

without pulling the records and actually comparing, um, i'd just say "prolly
not".
all those horn lines are popular blues rifs.
the chords go thru the regular 12bar blues progression and the horns just
keep riffing.
it all sounds great, but you can only do *so much* with those pentatonic
scales and flat 7ths.

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?
--
Gavin Smith
--
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats aloft o'er dale and hills
When all at once I came upon
My dog being sick on the daffodils.
- Spike Milligan

[Kares]

it might not be one of Ellington's most brilliant compositions (I accept),
but still, it's an Ellington-composition, and Prince stole it, simple as
that. Not a very nice way of showing respect for Ellington......


K

Post by longhairedrockstar
without pulling the records and actually comparing, um, i'd just say "prolly
not".
all those horn lines are popular blues rifs.
the chords go thru the regular 12bar blues progression and the horns just
keep riffing.
it all sounds great, but you can only do *so much* with those pentatonic
scales and flat 7ths.

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?
--
Gavin Smith
--
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats aloft o'er dale and hills
When all at once I came upon
My dog being sick on the daffodils.
- Spike Milligan

[longhairedrockstar]

this prince-defending is gonna be ludicrous coming from me but...

it was a live performance, not a release.
it's not the same as mariah stealing cameo or some lazyass rapper that
steals the whole hook froma disco tune.
live, it's just a little tip of the hat.
creative stealing is part of the music world.
who has had a truly original idea that didn't derive from something else,
since maybe the guy who invented the wheel?

borrowing little lines is cool, tasty even when you look out in the crowd
and you can see a glimmer in someone's eye..."damn, what's that from?...."
it shows character, it shows that you want to connect with something that
the audience is already familar with.
albiet, i don't agree with the vanilla ice approach where you flat rip
something off and exploit it.

missy uses jam master jay.
prince uses the hell out of sly and JB.
all original music develops from the tastes of the players.
i think it's ok to not hide that kinda thing.

Post by Kares
it might not be one of Ellington's most brilliant compositions (I accept),
but still, it's an Ellington-composition, and Prince stole it, simple as
that. Not a very nice way of showing respect for Ellington......
K

Post by longhairedrockstar
without pulling the records and actually comparing, um, i'd just say

"prolly

Post by longhairedrockstar
not".
all those horn lines are popular blues rifs.
the chords go thru the regular 12bar blues progression and the horns just
keep riffing.
it all sounds great, but you can only do *so much* with those pentatonic
scales and flat 7ths.

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads me
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?
--
Gavin Smith
--
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats aloft o'er dale and hills
When all at once I came upon
My dog being sick on the daffodils.
- Spike Milligan

[Kares]

What the hell are you talking about, man? :))

1.: It was an official video RELEASE. (BTW: if you play a tune on stage only
ONCE, that's already "public performance" and you HAVE TO pay royalties for
that. Prince not only played this track a zillion times, he also released it
commercially.)

2.: P wasn't "borrowing a little line", he was playing a Duke Ellington
number, note for note. P only added lyrics to it.

Just face it: this fits right into the LOOOOONG line of acts Prince
shouldn't be proud of.



K

Post by longhairedrockstar
this prince-defending is gonna be ludicrous coming from me but...
it was a live performance, not a release.
it's not the same as mariah stealing cameo or some lazyass rapper that
steals the whole hook froma disco tune.
live, it's just a little tip of the hat.
creative stealing is part of the music world.
who has had a truly original idea that didn't derive from something else,
since maybe the guy who invented the wheel?
borrowing little lines is cool, tasty even when you look out in the crowd
and you can see a glimmer in someone's eye..."damn, what's that from?...."
it shows character, it shows that you want to connect with something that
the audience is already familar with.
albiet, i don't agree with the vanilla ice approach where you flat rip
something off and exploit it.
missy uses jam master jay.
prince uses the hell out of sly and JB.
all original music develops from the tastes of the players.
i think it's ok to not hide that kinda thing.

Post by Kares
it might not be one of Ellington's most brilliant compositions (I accept),
but still, it's an Ellington-composition, and Prince stole it, simple as
that. Not a very nice way of showing respect for Ellington......
K

Post by longhairedrockstar
without pulling the records and actually comparing, um, i'd just say

"prolly

Post by longhairedrockstar
not".
all those horn lines are popular blues rifs.
the chords go thru the regular 12bar blues progression and the horns

just

Post by Kares

Post by longhairedrockstar
keep riffing.
it all sounds great, but you can only do *so much* with those pentatonic
scales and flat 7ths.

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I

noticed

Post by Kares

Post by longhairedrockstar

Post by Gavin Smith
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on

the

Post by Kares

Post by longhairedrockstar

Post by Gavin Smith
Lovesexy Dortmund show.
I think it's unlikely that Van is quoting a Prince line, which leads

me

Post by Kares

Post by longhairedrockstar

Post by Gavin Smith
to think that it must be something old by Duke Ellington or something.
Does anyone know? Lee?
--
Gavin Smith
--
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats aloft o'er dale and hills
When all at once I came upon
My dog being sick on the daffodils.
- Spike Milligan

[Kares]

Post by Kares
What the hell are you talking about, man? :))
1.: It was an official video RELEASE. (BTW: if you play a tune on stage only
ONCE, that's already "public performance" and you HAVE TO pay royalties for
that. Prince not only played this track a zillion times, he also released it
commercially.)
2.: P wasn't "borrowing a little line", he was playing a Duke Ellington
number, note for note. P only added lyrics to it.

ok, NOT "note for note"....

[longhairedrockstar]

you're obviously mistaking me for a prince fan.

"Kares"

Post by Kares
Just face it: this fits right into the LOOOOONG line of acts Prince
shouldn't be proud of.

[Kares]

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.


K

[longhairedrockstar]

88 as an import yeah?

call me rogue...
but if i can't walk into the shop down the block and put my hands on it, it
doesn't really count.

i'm having a hard time reading between your lines.
prince is a rich moron with little-to-no real ethical integrity, what's your
point?

Post by Kares

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.
K

[Ernitude]

"longhairedrockstar" <***@crawl.org> wrote in message
news:_glMa.215814

Post by longhairedrockstar
call me rogue...
but if i can't walk into the shop down the block and put my hands on it, it
doesn't really count.

How many things are released here that aren't in the UK or Europe, or vice
versa? How many Prince 12" singles have different mixes overseas than here?
How many albums have bonus tracks, or a slightly altered track list in Japan
or the UK, opposed to what is released in the US?

Does that negate the release, and people owning it legally. It doesn't
change Prince making money off of it. It doesn't negate it being real. I
mean Madonna's Truth or Dare was released across the pond as In Bed With
Madonna. Does it make it not the same movie? Of course not. Sounds silly,
huh?

--
In this skin,

Ernest L Sewell, IV
----------------------------------------
Find what you really love the most, and spend your life doing just that.
----------------------------------------
AIM & Yahoo!: ErnestSewell
MSN: ernestsewell"@"hotmail.com
ICQ: 116434445
www.FourthProductions.net
Do not add me to any Spam or Fwd list.
----------------------------------------

[Ernitude]

I think your rants really have nothing to do w/ the thread anyway. You
don't agree w/ people? Fine. Doesn't make them silly. Makes you
different. No one here said anything about completist or collectors or
anything. And with venues like Ebay and Half.com and Gemm.com, how can you
NOT put your hands on something???

--
In this skin,

Ernest L Sewell, IV
----------------------------------------
Find what you really love the most, and spend your life doing just that.
----------------------------------------
AIM & Yahoo!: ErnestSewell
MSN: ernestsewell"@"hotmail.com
ICQ: 116434445
www.FourthProductions.net
Do not add me to any Spam or Fwd list.
----------------------------------------

whatever this whole thread has turned into, i don't know.
bootleg, us official, uk official, whatever....prince did not release a

duke

song.
he used a hornline or two, so what...
it's a stylistic argument, not an issue of intellectual property.
there's a metal band called carcass that used to borrow passages from men

at

work tunes in their guitar parts. now they weren't coping the song or
stealing, it was just recognizable if you were familiar with the tunes.
i assure you that hardly a single carcass fan would recognize men at work,
but it's in there if you know what you're hearing.
does this mean that carcass is a band of thieves?
i'm not a collector anymore and i don't think like one.
if it's not something i can easily put my hands on.....there ya go.
sue me for no longer having a completeist view towards the music of a cat
who hasn't done anything that excited me in a very fucking long time.
apologies, if i may (or may-not) sound like an ass to some of you.
i'm just saying that borrowing is cool in my book.
if you want to turn prince in and make him pay, go ahead.
he's got the money.
yes ernesto, on all levels, it's pretty fucking silly.
;-)

Post by Ernitude
news:_glMa.215814

Post by longhairedrockstar
call me rogue...
but if i can't walk into the shop down the block and put my hands on

it,

Post by Ernitude
it

Post by longhairedrockstar
doesn't really count.

How many things are released here that aren't in the UK or Europe, or vice
versa? How many Prince 12" singles have different mixes overseas than

here?

Post by Ernitude
How many albums have bonus tracks, or a slightly altered track list in

Japan

Post by Ernitude
or the UK, opposed to what is released in the US?
Does that negate the release, and people owning it legally. It doesn't
change Prince making money off of it. It doesn't negate it being real.

I

Post by Ernitude
mean Madonna's Truth or Dare was released across the pond as In Bed With
Madonna. Does it make it not the same movie? Of course not. Sounds

silly,

Post by Ernitude
huh?
--
In this skin,
Ernest L Sewell, IV
----------------------------------------
Find what you really love the most, and spend your life doing just that.
----------------------------------------
AIM & Yahoo!: ErnestSewell
ICQ: 116434445
www.FourthProductions.net
Do not add me to any Spam or Fwd list.
----------------------------------------

[longhairedrockstar]

i dig.
;-)

so anyways, how much are these dortmund concerts going for these days?
i've got an old 4th generation VHS copy but i honestly never knew it was
commercially available.

i like your name alteration. it has some flair.

It's a nickname, and fitting. hehehe

i'm not into fighting.
kares doesn't agree with me and won't let it be.

Kares will argue w/ a brick wall and try to tell it that it's really wood.
Having tried to be nice or at least pleasant and carry on conversations,
it's failed miserably on the other end.
--
In this skin,
Ernest L Sewell, IV
----------------------------------------
Find what you really love the most, and spend your life doing just that.
----------------------------------------
AIM & Yahoo!: ErnestSewell
ICQ: 116434445
www.FourthProductions.net
Do not add me to any Spam or Fwd list.
----------------------------------------

[leeharrisonline.com]

Post by Kares

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.
K

It was a European release only.

lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com

Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.

[Kares]

Post by leeharrisonline.com

Post by Kares

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.
K

It was a European release only.

and?
It's not "out" until it's out in the US? :)))

K

[leeharrisonline.com]

Post by Kares

Post by leeharrisonline.com

Post by Kares

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.
K

It was a European release only.

and?
It's not "out" until it's out in the US? :)))
K

Just letting Clyde know why he hasn't seen it on the shelf over here. It's
PAL, too.

Lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com

Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.

[longhairedrockstar]

i've been out of the collecting biz for awhile.
i might have even forgotten about it.
;-)

thanks tho.

how's the moonshine percolating in your neck of the woods these days?

Post by leeharrisonline.com

Post by Kares

Post by leeharrisonline.com

Post by Kares

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

in 1988.
K

It was a European release only.

and?
It's not "out" until it's out in the US? :)))
K

Just letting Clyde know why he hasn't seen it on the shelf over here.

It's

Post by leeharrisonline.com
PAL, too.
Lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com
Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.

[leeharrisonline.com]

Post by longhairedrockstar
how's the moonshine percolating in your neck of the woods these days?

High on the hog.

Lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com

Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.

[longhairedrockstar]

sweet.
i need to get my ass to Rich. and see one of your groups.

Post by leeharrisonline.com

Post by longhairedrockstar
how's the moonshine percolating in your neck of the woods these days?

High on the hog.
Lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com
Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.

[Kares]

Post by leeharrisonline.com

when did he start releasing live lovesexy shows?

Just letting Clyde know why he hasn't seen it on the shelf over here.

It's

Post by leeharrisonline.com
PAL, too.

OK :)


K

[leeharrisonline.com]

Post by Gavin Smith
Listening to Van Morrison's fine "Down The Road" album today, I noticed
the horns playing the exact same melody at the end of "All Work And No
Play" that Eric n' Atlanta do at the start of "If I Had A Harem" on the
Lovesexy Dortmund show.

That's an old Duke Ellington horn line.

Lee
http://www.leeharrisonline.com

Pimple in Dutch is pukkel.